Curse

Cacheelma · May 31, 2007, 10:49 AM // 10:49

Did you just say you want to use Wanderlust to....knockdown Kanaxai?

Seriously? In that degen-forever room?

Kanaxai moves fast; he can dodge Wanderlust's projectile while he's running away (assuming that you're pulling him out of his lair to knock him down. Don't tell me you're going to use a rit to get in there and plant wanderlust near him or we'll have to have a very long conversation) back to his lair after 1st knockdown.

And because your Wanderlust won't last long, 2-3 miss shots = all you're gonna get. Now you have half dozen or more Sapping Nightmares to clean up.

I don't even wanna ask who's going to pull him out AND go back to your team without dragging the nightmares along with him. None of your builds is strong enough to take more than 3 hits from Kanaxai or able to teleport back like W/A w/ recall.

My suggestion, you say? 3 W/As, 3 E/Me, 4 HB+HP Monks, 1 SS necro and 1 BiP necro.

What are the reasons for you to make this so-called "out of the box" team build again? Are there something wrong with the conventional build? If so, do you care to point it out to us?

Is it because the conventional build uses only 4 classes? Well, I don't see 10 classes in your build either. So what is it?

Prize_check_asker · May 31, 2007, 11:00 AM // 11:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cacheelma

What are the reasons for you to make this so-called "out of the box" team build again?

I guess the reason of this build is that ritualists, assasins and others would be more wanted in Deep, more meaning to make other characters than the most wanted/needed ones ;/

good build if it works :I , tho I will stick to the old one cause it works fast and easy.

vdz · May 31, 2007, 11:15 AM // 11:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cacheelma

Did you just say you want to use Wanderlust to....knockdown Kanaxai?

Seriously? In that degen-forever room?

Kanaxai moves fast; he can dodge Wanderlust's projectile while he's running away (assuming that you're pulling him out of his lair to knock him down. Don't tell me you're going to use a rit to get in there and plant wanderlust near him or we'll have to have a very long conversation) back to his lair after 1st knockdown.

And because your Wanderlust won't last long, 2-3 miss shots = all you're gonna get. Now you have half dozen or more Sapping Nightmares to clean up.

I don't even wanna ask who's going to pull him out AND go back to your team without dragging the nightmares along with him. None of your builds is strong enough to take more than 3 hits from Kanaxai or able to teleport back like W/A w/ recall.

My suggestion, you say? 3 W/As, 3 E/Me, 4 HB+HP Monks, 1 SS necro and 1 BiP necro.

What are the reasons for you to make this so-called "out of the box" team build again? Are there something wrong with the conventional build? If so, do you care to point it out to us?

Is it because the conventional build uses only 4 classes? Well, I don't see 10 classes in your build either. So what is it?

Can you please explain why you need 4 HB with HP ? It seriously is an overkill and really not needed. When you got 2 monks with HB+HP its more than enough. Get one prot instead, works better.

The total point here is that people dont think further. Yes there are more ways to Rome. Is that conventional deep build the only way? no it isnt
Is it the fastest? maybe. But some things can be improved

Cacheelma · May 31, 2007, 11:46 AM // 11:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by vdz

Can you please explain why you need 4 HB with HP ? It seriously is an overkill and really not needed. When you got 2 monks with HB+HP its more than enough. Get one prot instead, works better.

The total point here is that people dont think further. Yes there are more ways to Rome. Is that conventional deep build the only way? no it isnt
Is it the fastest? maybe.

Did you really miss the point? The suggestion I made is basically just "Go use the conventional build", which, has 4 HB+Hp Monks (and still nearly not enough in some degen-heavy/poinson-heavy rooms) AND a BiPper to help with energy (something you don't have in this....build. God knows how you can manage, but good luck).

Quote:

Originally Posted by vdz

But some things can be improved

I agree. But are you telling me that the OP's build is "better"?

As I asked earlier, please point out the flaw in the conventional build so we can start making something "better".

vdz · May 31, 2007, 12:14 PM // 12:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cacheelma

Did you really miss the point? The suggestion I made is basically just "Go use the conventional build", which, has 4 HB+Hp Monks (and still nearly not enough in some degen-heavy/poinson-heavy rooms) AND a BiPper to help with energy (something you don't have in this....build. God knows how you can manage, but good luck).

urm are you kidding me? Presuming you have 16 in healing prayers 6 in prot and 11 in divine favor. HB+HP = 126 hp . if you got 2 hb+hp monks thats 252 health points. Not enough? Cmon maybe you will get in trouble when they continuously cast it together but still it should be oke.When the tank is going to lure put some prot on him and when he/she is further away cast Aegis which should give him the time to to return safely.
Seriously 2 HB + HP is more than enough or 1 LoD+HP and HB+HP. When you say 4 HB+HP is nearly not enough i tend to laugh

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cacheelma

I agree. But are you telling me that the OP's build is "better"?

uhm no i dont

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cacheelma

As I asked earlier, please point out the flaw in the conventional build so we can start making something "better".

4 HB+HP or 3 HB+HP and 1 LoD+HP is overkill. Bring prot monk with some good reflexes. Saves allot of DP.

Cacheelma · May 31, 2007, 01:50 PM // 13:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by vdz

urm are you kidding me? Presuming you have 16 in healing prayers 6 in prot and 11 in divine favor. HB+HP = 126 hp . if you got 2 hb+hp monks thats 252 health points. Not enough? Cmon maybe you will get in trouble when they continuously cast it together but still it should be oke.When the tank is going to lure put some prot on him and when he/she is further away cast Aegis which should give him the time to to return safely.
Seriously 2 HB + HP is more than enough or 1 LoD+HP and HB+HP. When you say 4 HB+HP is nearly not enough i tend to laugh

uhm no i dont

4 HB+HP or 3 HB+HP and 1 LoD+HP is overkill. Bring prot monk with some good reflexes. Saves allot of DP.

You're talking "Theory". I'm talking "experience".

No offense but, have you ever played in The Deep with proper "Conventional" build, and beaten Kanaxai?

The conventional build I post (3W/As, 3 E/Mes, 4 Monks, 2 Necros) is something people are using RIGHT NOW in the Deep, not something I made up by myself by "reading" the skill listing.

You can bring any number of monks you want to, but please consider the fact that you MUST split into 4 groups of 3 people in the first area. With only 1 monk you'll have only 1 "active" room that has only 3 people. And it's this group of 3 people that must clear out the second room filled with mobs AND go into other rooms and kill mobs in them to bring out other people.

With 2 monks that'd be 2 active rooms, which I'd say it's a bit more managable but still not as effective.

If you don't get what I'm talking about, please go try the Deep out before you try to reply.

JONO51 · May 31, 2007, 04:21 PM // 16:21

I think you should stick to a searing flames nuker and add to the paragon "They're On Fire!" to make the enemies deal less damage.

Sk8tborderx · May 31, 2007, 05:38 PM // 17:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cacheelma

Did you just say you want to use Wanderlust to....knockdown Kanaxai?

Seriously? In that degen-forever room?

Kanaxai moves fast; he can dodge Wanderlust's projectile while he's running away (assuming that you're pulling him out of his lair to knock him down. Don't tell me you're going to use a rit to get in there and plant wanderlust near him or we'll have to have a very long conversation) back to his lair after 1st knockdown.

And because your Wanderlust won't last long, 2-3 miss shots = all you're gonna get. Now you have half dozen or more Sapping Nightmares to clean up.

Having a ritualist with wanderlust and shadowsong is great, even more effective then a nuker. Have the 3 warriors "box" kanaxai in, then let the rit spam his spirits. If you cannot find out a way to make the spirit survive in the degen room, I suggest you make a rit.

Cacheelma · Jun 01, 2007, 05:12 AM // 05:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sk8tborderx

Having a ritualist with wanderlust and shadowsong is great, even more effective then a nuker. Have the 3 warriors "box" kanaxai in, then let the rit spam his spirits. If you cannot find out a way to make the spirit survive in the degen room, I suggest you make a rit.

I understand and agree that a Rit would be very helpful there.

But the point I tried to make with that post is that you don't have someone who can get in there, knockdown Kanaxai TWICE to spawn the sapping nightmares AND then come back to your team without dragging the nightmares back with him.

I think that's the important part for W/A with recall, not just the gate-opening trick.

So I'd say, the 2 warriors in this new build should still be W/As with recall. I have to say we're getting closer to the conventional build though....